New Starsiege release on Steam Discussion:: 2014

[surge]

I'd like to Start this discussion by stating what I have to offer to the project. I offer the 2 disc version of Starsiege in ISO format. I also offer General Starsiege vet expertise on balance and gampeplay, known glitches, ect.. I do not offer any script or programming skills, thats a lil over my head.

Ok, supposedly we have permission from the company that currently owns Starsiege(Hi-Rez) to release it on Steam to be distributed, as long as we aren't making any money off of it. Now you guys know, that we have like 3 or 4 version of Starsiege available for download, so we need to decide on what version we should release.

My 1st concern: We should implement anti hack scripts in the steam release.
My 2nd concern: We should fix glitches, There are alot of random glitches in Starsiege, We need to make a list.
My 3rd concern: We should patch and update the game, A good example is the Netcode. Now I've heard that this game was designed for 56k use which contributes to slight shot-delay, the game was not designed for today's broadband, we should update and patch that.

There has been talk of updating the graphics by moving the game over from its older torque engine, to the latest and greatest torque engine, if we could get some experts in here to discuss the matter that would be great. But who knows maybe thats taking it a little to far, i'm not sure.

Ok spread the word, and everyone starting putting in their own two cents, lets get the word out about this project. Any ideas are welcome, Discuss--------------->

www.facebook.com/groups/starsiege/

[surge]

(Reply by Timothy W.)
Timothy W. :: I don't think moving to the latest Torque is an option. If it was that easy 2845 would not have taken so long, and then been cancelled. Or has everyone forgotten that.

(Reply by Warren B.)
Porting SS to torque would be easy for exception of one thing I've gotten close but not quite.... I duplicated the vehicle class as a herc class placeholder, even ported a wheeled vehicle to demonstrate the duplicate works without issue. The problem is that the new placeholder class needs to be modified so that it mimics much of the player class. Essentially we would then have the appendages and movement behavior we are looking for.

(Reply by James D)
Supposedly have permission? Supposedly will not be good enough for Valve. Hi-Rez Studios would need to handle all of the legal details from the beginning as the proper owners.

(Reply by Lucas B)
Do we have to make a new copy of the game in a modern engine first? I'd love to get the actual game through steam and add trophy's and such. (kill 100 cybrids, strip a herc of weapons, ect) The game's lasted about 16 years now, how about we put a version of the old game after we fix the concerns, and then port everything to torque or some other engine down the road?

(Reply by Gabe L)
Well the siegers emailed hi rez and got that reply that it would be ok, im sure we will have to talk to them again in more detail. We will probly have to give the releease to hi rez to release to steam, and then they will probly charge 10-20 bucks lol

(Reply by Tony S.)
As far as making a new SS on Torque, the reason that the 2845 team didn't get anywhere is their closed nature and unwillingness to share with the community. When things got difficult they decided to hide the fact from everyone rather than get help.
Creating a game in torque really isn't that difficult. The difficult part is making parts that blow off, which can be handled in multiple ways. That's where the 2845 team froze in its tracks, they couldn't figure out how to make part blow off. On the issue of the player class, you attach the player to the herc and put the player in the cockpit. You can either make the player invisible at that point or able to get out and get in another vehicle. Either or.

(Reply by Michael K.)
If it's gonna be the old game, I (biasedly and with great prejudice) vote on Complete. I'm sure it can be re-worked, but there wouldn't be a d**ned reason to charge for it, if anyone proposes that. I do so because it's the most stable version I've ever seen (with regular patching when someone tells me if something goes wrong with it).

(Reply by Gabe L.)
the problem with complete is that they start it off with the graphics at a quarter of the way? im running full graphics on my stock install off iso. When i turned graphics full on complete i started getting studder and video lag. We need to fully test complete and find out what the dang problem is.

(Reply by Michael K.)
I started it with the game's original baseline and a safe 800x600 resolution (pre Widescreen Fix patch). Not sure about your stuttering issue - I've yet to find anyone else with it or experience it. One thing I've never figured out is the sound volume - the menu controls don't work for that.

(Reply By Gabe L.)
Ok i was testing it on a map that had tons of stars in the sky, im not bs'n u ok? And when i think back, i had a laptop with 9800gts right? Well anyways, i installed hd menu and then 3dhardwarecard.cs update, after that hardwarecard.cs update i started getting studdering. so i put the original back in and it quit, and this was on a ss stock install off iso not ss complete. Im not trying to insult or anything, im stating facts, and it would be great to get the bottom of the problem. I run 1366x768 res on widescreen. I was testing ss complete last night, so thats where i got my info from the prior post. Im down for testing whatever and helping in any way i can if ur willing to give it a look again. Oh and another thing, we need to update the netcode and fix glitches, that wasnt done with ss complete. Not to mention anti hack scripts havent been implemented.
So a no on giving them ss complete as it is. Ahhh i edited, i see that u said it can be reworked!!! yes! yes! Hmm and campaign doesnt work right with ss complete either does it? or is that just hd menu?

(Reply by Tony S.)
As far as making a new SS on Torque, the reason that the 2845 team didn't get anywhere is their closed nature and unwillingness to share with the community. When things got difficult they decided to hide the fact from everyone rather than get help.
Creating a game in torque really isn't that difficult. The difficult part is making parts that blow off, which can be handled in multiple ways. That's where the 2845 team froze in its tracks, they couldn't figure out how to make part blow off.
On the issue of the player class, you attach the player to the herc and put the player in the cockpit. You can either make the player invisible at that point or able to get out and get in another vehicle. Either or.

[akolade]

I am moderately experienced in coding and scripting, working on a bachelor's degree in software development with a major in video game programming, and would gladly help anyone involved with anything involved. I am not very experienced with modeling, skinning, etc, but I CAN operate the related software and produce results.

I do not think trying to fix any bugs/glitches would be productive to the rebirth... the amount of time needed to develop these would severely delay the release to Steam, as access to an un-obfuscated starsiege.exe is currently not available, and things like netcode, physics, and rendering are hardcoded and not easily changed.

Addressing specific concerns:

1. I would absolutely love to see an anti-hack script added (Human//Animals have flattering ways...), but sadly, many scripts and variables are not passed to the server, directing us back to the lack of .exe code access. There IS a way for a client to pull a server-side variable that stores their vehicle's mass and change it dynamically, but I do not know how it is done. Besides, I don't think the reverse applies, as the variable is not stored in the client for the server to request(pure speculation), though maybe a script could be added that totals a vehicle's mass client side and then passes it to the server which then checks it against the server-side mass?

2. It would be nice to fix the broken, non-rotating Dreadlock turret hitbox and other minor bugs I cannot think of right now, but the shield splash damage bug has become a core gameplay mechanic and should not be removed, just as Tribes' "jump bug" became a core gameplay element in the form of skiing on "frictionless boots".
There may be some other major bugs such as crashing and such, but how long will it take for us to track down some random crash bug? Also... how long will it take to get an un-obfuscated .exe to fix anything, if ever?

3. Updating the netcode to modern standards would be fantastic. However, I really think that the netcode is fine, excluding flyers, and as such, is not a major concern that should delay release. If we were able to fix flyers alongside the modernization, I would be supportive, but doing so would, again, require .exe access.

My concerns:

1. Gameplay balance. I think that the weapon balance mod SJ and I were working on should be continued, as it is a fairly easy, quickly completed addition that would help keep the new players and requires no .exe access. I have been told by many players that a major reason for not playing anymore was because the game turned into everyone running the same basic configs or being effectively useless. Also, maybe fix the terrible tanks, hercs(turn down adjudicator engine so it doesnt spin like a ballerina), and components(lol @ reactor capacitor) to make it seem less rushed and amateur? Everyone knows that the game is old... graphics are not a concern. As long as we can improve the general gameplay without breaking nostalgia, we will have a resurgence of old players, and a surge of new, permanent players.

2. Maps, mods, gametypes. I think that there are plenty of maps already... there are absolute TONS of maps that never get cycled... ever.
However, new gametypes and mods are always welcome and would be good to develop. XP progression systems coupled with purchasable/tradeable equipment and currency are EXTREMELY addicting to a large portion of gamers, and achievements to a lesser extent.

In summation, I am inclined to agree with Lucas B. It would be very nice to have a beautifully rendered, modern Starsiege experience make it onto Steam, almost certifiably to rave reviews and a massive player base, but I think that getting Starsiege on Steam even it it's current, buggy, unfinished form is better than waiting. Let's get some nice new features/balance changes added quickly, and launch it. We can then spend the unforeseeable future working on bringing our baby back to the future. I'll be there to help us hold her hand along the way.

[surge]

(Reply by Tony S.)
The judge may have a great turn rate, but that is offset against an assault mech that's underweight. For instance a 3 rail oly can blow a judge to pieces. A 2 pbw/2emp gorgon can also in short time.
The gorgon is actually supposed to be faster than the judge, but because of rounding issues it isn't.
To be honest though, I think there are so many bugs in Starsiege that are impossible to fix that the best scenario would be release SS complete (with the anti invisibility patch included) and work on an update on another engine in our spare time.
Not sure exactly what is holding us to using Torque either. UDK is another (much better) IMHO.

(Reply by Michael K.)
I never applied the HD Menu update - Complete works off of a custom modified Menu.GUI that bypasses CD checks altogether (Much more efficiently than the ancient noCDPatch), but I'm not sure how that could affect it. As for the 3dHardwareCard.cs file, what version and year is it? The latest I have is from 2011.

(Reply by Gabe L.)
yeah i wasnt using hd menu on ss complete last night. I had just remember a previous experience with video lag from an earlier time. I was showing u that i was not picking on ss complete only, i was insulting another ss project too lol

(Michael K.)
Yeah I know, I'm just saying I've been unable to reproduce your errors with it (trust me I've been trying like hell to break it). As for netcode, bug fixes, et cetera, that's all on the Darkstar engine. I'm not personally aware of a way to update the game's netcode, or most of that. As for anti-hacking, is there even a way to hack this game? There was only one way to truly cheat that I knew of, but it's been outdated for years as to be almost impossible nowadays.

(Gabe L.)
Ive got a gtx 460 video card. Do u know some maps with like 2 or 3 starry skies layered , to create a sky with densely packed stars? Well thats what i was testing it on.. You look at the sky and turn in a circle, its micro video lag studder, you need something to compare it too. An original stock install off cds. I can link u to a torrent site to dl the iso if u like. thepiratebay.se/search/starsiege/0/99/0 The 1st result, im not sure if thats straight ISO or like ss complete or soemthing, but that 2nd result is a ISO of the 1disc version of starsiege. And crap, hold on looks like the seeds are dead, ill see about finding another link with the 2disc stock iso version, It should be be found by tommorrow with one seeder, if u know what im saying.