Patch 1.005 opinions - suggestions

[DrakeDWR]

Problem: No one in game uses any other components aside from -

• SCAP
  
• SMOD
  
• Cloak
  

If anyone does they are possibly screwing around with SP Campaign OR new to the whole SS style of "TDMing". But, hopefully ...that'll change in the future. That's what me and Snow and hopefully a few others are aiming to do.

[wrathofdeadguy]

My request...

Fix the SAmp by making it a Small component and increasing its shield bonus to 50%, opening up more hardware options for light Hercs (which could greatly benefit from having an extra ton to play around with, if the pilot is good enough to take less fire).

A few of you will probably scratch their heads at that one, but it has always bugged me that the SAmp was so unforgivably useless when it should have been a 'different but equal' alternative to the SMod. A 25% bonus on a Medium hardpoint that most of the Lights just can't spare, in return for 1 extra ton (which doesn't even begin to offset the 5 you just lost for not using an Agrav). Whoo. 50% would bring the performance more into line with the component's mass relative to that of the SMod (since the SAmp also lacks an Achilles' Heel and, unlike the SMod, requires no energy to use).

Also, Energy Capacitors are quite possibly the worst offender for uselessness, but IMHO they could be fixed if they could be made to discharge over time, like a Turbo or a Rocket Boost. The Battery already provides a reserve of energy, but unlike the ECap doesn't produce a drain on the reactor once its reserve is depleted. If the ECap could be made to discharge over time, then for the duration of its effect the output of the reactor would actually be increased, which would be very handy. Here are a few examples:

- Light Herc mounts smaller reactor and ECap to save space (perhaps not even needing Agrav as a result), turning the ECap on when making an attack pass and allowing it to recharge when under cover or evading.

- Energy-dominant config uses ECap to sustain a higher rate of fire to overcome an opponent's use of SCap for greater endurance.

- A cloaked tank recharges its reactor while still cloaked to prepare for an attack, or to sustain its cloak while using Turbo.

As is, about the only use for ECap that I can think of offhand is as a novelty to use in conjunction with a battery and a Medium reactor to achieve 6-minute-plus cloak times. Not terribly useful on its own.


*edit* To follow up on Drake's comments... folks also use Turbo, Agrav, and the various counters when necessary, but even a few of the useful but less useful items could be improved... Nano Repair, for 6 tons, really should heal faster; for 4 tons UAP should carry a few more rounds, Rocket Boost should be faster than Turbo and not just last longer...

[Stormtrooper]

As far as patches go, let's stick with preexisting stuff for the moment. There are engine changes like networking code which we can't really fix , and there are balance changes. We can do balance changes. Surge brought up a lot of bugs, but I don't think we can do much without the source code.

Let's look at components. I agree with the samp argument (50% might be a bit high, that's testable). Then there's life support, the field stabilizer, and the thermal diffuser. For each of these, there's really only one reason to use them, and it's not usually worth the drawbacks. Unfortunately only the thermal diffuser's functionality can be tweaked.

For the ECMs, I'd suggest making the human/cybrid versions roughly equivalent, with one type having better range, and the other having better intensity. This makes one better for close range, and the other for longer ranges. The masses should be the same for both cybrid and human types.

There's no real reason to use the cuttlefish cloak. Not sure what to do there.

Shields: who uses anything besides theta or fastcharge? Everything else has notably lower efficiency. I see this as being really hard to tweak to acceptable levels, since the game is currently very shield-oriented.

Sensors: Not sure about this one, but what if they were less balanced around mass, and more around individual features? One might have more range but slower sweep time than another, yet weigh the same. Then they could be split into tiers, each offering more overall value in exchange for mass.


Tanks.

The predator and dreadlock are both much better than the paladin, bolo, recluse, and pre-fix myrmidon, taking into account armor, speed, and mass limit. The paladin could use a lot more armor (without doing any testing, I'm thinking ~40% more overall). Maybe a large reactor since it has so much free mass.

Also, consider increasing the recluse's max mass by 5, adding a little more armor, while increasing the chassis weight a bit so it could rival the dreadlock as a 45-ton tank (it'd obviously have less armor, but an extra weapon).

Allowing the bolo to mount large weapons would allow a pilot to compromise for more firepower, since the mass limit is still so low.

[DrakeDWR]

Apr 24, 2010 1:24:51 GMT -6 @Stormtrooper said:

As far as patches go, let's stick with preexisting stuff for the moment. There are engine changes like networking code which we can't really fix , and there are balance changes. We can do balance changes. Surge brought up a lot of bugs, but I don't think we can do much without the source code.

Let's look at components. I agree with the samp argument (50% might be a bit high, that's testable). Then there's life support, the field stabilizer, and the thermal diffuser. For each of these, there's really only one reason to use them, and it's not usually worth the drawbacks. Unfortunately only the thermal diffuser's functionality can be tweaked.

For the ECMs, I'd suggest making the human/cybrid versions roughly equivalent, with one type having better range, and the other having better intensity. This makes one better for close range, and the other for longer ranges. The masses should be the same for both cybrid and human types.

There's no real reason to use the cuttlefish cloak. Not sure what to do there.

Shields: who uses anything besides theta or fastcharge? Everything else has notably lower efficiency. I see this as being really hard to tweak to acceptable levels, since the game is currently very shield-oriented.

Sensors: Not sure about this one, but what if they were less balanced around mass, and more around individual features? One might have more range but slower sweep time than another, yet weigh the same. Then they could be split into tiers, each offering more overall value in exchange for mass.


Tanks.

The predator and dreadlock are both much better than the paladin, bolo, recluse, and pre-fix myrmidon, taking into account armor, speed, and mass limit. The paladin could use a lot more armor (without doing any testing, I'm thinking ~40% more overall). Maybe a large reactor since it has so much free mass.

Also, consider increasing the recluse's max mass by 5, adding a little more armor, while increasing the chassis weight a bit so it could rival the dreadlock as a 45-ton tank (it'd obviously have less armor, but an extra weapon).

Allowing the bolo to mount large weapons would allow a pilot to compromise for more firepower, since the mass limit is still so low.

I like quite a few of these ideas.

[Snow]

I agree with Stormy - those were the original ideas basically.

[SuRgE]

Look do not add any weps or vehicles, this is a patch not a mod.
DONT TURN IT INTO A ANOTHER MOD, JUST FIX SH IT. PATCH IT TO 1.005

[DrakeDWR]

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Apr 24, 2010 18:42:04 GMT -6 @SuRgE said:

Look do not add any weps or vehicles, this is a patch not a mod.
DONT TURN IT INTO A ANOTHER MOD, JUST FIX SH IT. PATCH IT TO 1.005

That's what Storm was suggesting? Fixing things that currently have errors and upgrading currently added content.

[Snow]

Alright, alright. I'm more inclined to listen to Stormy, since an MIB should know what he's talking about with the game.

Maybe it is better to call this an expansion pack than an actual patch.

[SuRgE]

Im really sorry i contributed to this noob thread. This is horse
Sh it, just patch it , dont "expand it" dont "Mod" it. How many mods have failed. THERE DUMB dont do it, just patch the game, dont alter weps or armor or components. Just patch it to 1.005.
I contributed alot of good info, alot of glitches exposed, and you guys just wanna ruin it all.

[Snow]

No hablo engrish? Half of that nuts we can't even do without the source code.

[Snow]

Then it'll be called an expansion set, retaining the engine but adding content to mix up the game.

Can we get to the subject please?

Contribute what you'd like to see!

[wrathofdeadguy]

I agree on most of the above, but a few more things...

One little point about the ECM and Thermal jammers, though- they actually already have a second function. When active, they reduce your sensor signature. The effect is weaker than that of the cloak, but if you combine either of the Tier 2 ECMs with a Diffuser and run passive sensors, you can make yourself invisible to radar in some vehicles. This is, however, of very limited utility since you need both jammer types to make it happen, and that eats two component slots... putting Tanks at a disadvantage and outright crippling Hercs.

On that note, would it be possible to give ECM the ability to hide you from active sensors, and the Thermal Diffuser to hide you from passive? That would fall short of rendering the cloak redundant, yet provide the jammers with more battlefield utility and give people another reason to pay attention and check their sensors in both modes.

That, however, might still leave the Diffuser at a bit of a disadvantage since most folks run active sensors most of the time... could the Diffuser be made to jam weapons like SGun and Plasma? Neither currently has a counter, but since they work differently from missiles I don't know if it's even possible.

Shields- A blanket increase in efficiency would eliminate the problem, IMHO. Several other shields are actually rather useful in the right situation- I have a few figs that use Medusa, Repulsor, and Zeta in place of the usual suspects, and they've all been reasonably successful. Since efficiency is secondary to overall strength anyway, it's something of a redundant stat that only serves to limit config options rather than add anything meaningful to the game.

Sensors- I don't know if anything can fix the problem here. No matter what you do, most people will still just use the lightest one available so they'll have more room for other things. Sensors are useful, but they're only about as useful as the Computer is; they're one of those "if I have space left over to make it bigger" things... only worse, because they don't give you a nice little lead indicator. Perhaps that could be remedied to some degree by reducing the mass of the better models, but making them all the same mass would just result in everyone using the one with the best range.


Tanks- Good points, but I'd disagree in a few places.

First, changing the mass of any vehicle is going to raise eyebrows, even if it's the Recluse which badly needs some fixing. More armor, perhaps a boost to speed and agility... that's about all you could likely get away with. It'll still help; right now that thing falls apart under a stern gaze.

Second, the Bolo's weapons are fine, but I would increase the Tank's top speed. Make it equal in speed to the Goad and Knight's Talon. If possible, I would also like to see the Bolo have the same stealth characteristics as the Pred- it doesn't make sense that there should be only one vehicle in the game geared towards speed and stealth.

Third, a word about the Avenger. It's a tractor, it's slow, I get that... but what I don't get is why it is less nimble at 25 tons than a 45-ton bulldozer. The treads are very widely spaced; the thing looks like it should turn on a dime. No other changes, just the agility... it is already small enough that, with that one little fix, it could evade a great deal of ouch.

Add that to the other stuff that's already under consideration. I'd actually love to see the Pred and Dread nerfed a little, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that every Tanker in the game would band together for a lynch mob if anyone dared to change either.

Hercs- Also, a few things to consider...

First and foremost, the Terran Talon- it just sucks. I've been driving my Knight's Talon for years and kicking a very reasonable amount of ass with it, but no amount of practice could make its counterpart worth driving. It has several disadvantages- first, it is the only Herc that can only mount a Small shield. Not having the mass for SCap Smod, that cripples it more than anything else. Second, it actually has less armor than its elite variant, again it is the only Herc in the game this is true of. Those two flaws combined with it being slower than others of its class make it a complete pushover even though it compensates by having more internal space than the KTalon. I could go on and on about how much it sucks, but I think you get the idea.

The Emancipator... it's cool to be able to lug around an XL weapon on a 40-ton Herc, but the thing only turns as fast as a Knight's Apocalypse. I know there are, or at least there were, experts who could really kill with an Eman, but that doesn't change the fact that it is entirely too sluggish on the turn. IMHO, its turn rate should be fixed to at least be equal to the Terran Minotaur.

All of the duplicates- Outrider Eman, Meta Shep, Goad, and Seeker- there should be some reason to use these other than the alternate skin. Perhaps they should differ in internal layout, or speed/agility vs armor, whatever... but as it stands we have four vehicles that are just wasting space because there is nothing functional to set them apart from the vehicles they're based on.

Okay, that's enough Wall 'o Text for now.

[Snow]

I like the way he thinks.

[SuRgE]

Yeah this looks like a Promising MOD , ill admit that
U should change the name of this thread to new expansion pack ideas, the whole patch 1.005 title is throwing peeps off.

Like i said, patch the fkn game.

THEN mod to ur nerd a s s hearts content, make like five infact, that'll keep you busy for awhile.

JUST PATCH THE GAME

Oh heres another Glitch, u know how sometimes u can ram or be rammed, then u stand there stuck, not being able to move for a while. Yeah PATCH that Dont MOD iT.

[SuRgE]

Ohhh u need the source code, i cant read when im mad, your sorry, i mean im sorry