Patch 1.005 opinions - suggestions

[Stormtrooper]

The radar visibility function that ECMs provide looks to be a combination of attributes rather than a simple "stealth coefficient." It might need to be played around with to achieve the desired results.

Plasma/Sgun are beam weapons, with a couple numbers in their projectile definitions which dictate whether they home in on targets and how tightly they can turn. There is no flag for jamming them, since they dont have a tracking type and occupy the same category as lasers. The Sgun is freakishly hard to dodge or outrun, but a sudden burst of sideways speed will usually means a plasma beam will miss its target.

Ideally for the sensors, you'd have 2 or 3 0.5-ton versions, so at the very least people are still confronted with a tradeoff of some sort.

On the bolo: sure, that works too. It's actually only 0.05 away from being as stealthy as the pred. I just wanted to see rail guns on a bolo.

My reasoning behind the recluse mass increase is that the cybrid tanks are 35 and 40 tons. Not a lot of variety there. Increasing it to 45, while increasing the chassis weight would allow maybe 2 or 3 more tons to work with, but then it would also probably need a large engine to reach its top speed. I just figured it looked bulky enough to weigh more than an emancipator.

[wrathofdeadguy]

Shame about the SGuns and Plas... as little use as they get, when someone does pull them out they're practically guaranteed to get a few kills without even trying. 'Twas a thought.

I still don't see why the Recluse needs more tonnage- it's entirely possible to shoehorn in configs that would be very good were it not for the weakness of the chassis in speed, armor, and agility. It looks like it should be heavier than it is, I'll give you that, but there isn't really a compelling gameplay reason to alter the mass... and getting people to accept the patch for what it is will be easier with subtler adjustments rather than overt changes.

Actually, IIRC, increasing the Recluse's mass was one of the things Akolade (EmperorZerg at the time) and I toyed with when we modded the tanks way back when. It ran in Slade's campaign server for a while, which was always modded to hell and back already, and people still complained because they expected the tanks which had always been weaker to be pushovers like usual. Granted, we took it a bit farther than just tweaking a few minor details (the EHull Myrm was a fun one), but the point is that the folks who play this game are very stuck in their ways.

That includes all of the balance issues- these are things everyone has come to rely on. There's always a hole in the SMod, the Recluse is easy to kill, shoot the Myrm in the head, Dreads and Preds are the best Tanks, and so on. Just getting anyone to accept any changes to any vehicles is going to be hard enough, if it can be done at all... if those changes get made, it is best to keep them subtle.


To Surge- There are more things that need fixing than just exploits, glitches, and stability issues. There is some disagreement about what specifically needs fixing and to what degree, but there are and have always been serious issues with SS that would not have persisted if Dynamix had or had been allowed to provide adequate support to the game.

Many of those issues are things that we use as crutches every single time we play, and while it may seem that they work very well, they also render about a third of the vehicles, components, and weapons in the game unquestionably inferior to the rest. While there are some things in the game- and the smaller shield generators and engines come to mind here- that were clearly meant as 'beginner gear' for the singleplayer half of the game, there are other things- like the Recluse, and the SAmp, and the ECap, and Lasers, and so on and so forth- that were just as clearly meant to be perfectly viable options in multiplayer, yet are not because they weren't properly implemented. They show up sometimes anyway, true, but only in the hands of real experts or the occasional screwball like me. As it stands, the game is only balanced if you use the most overpowered equipment; otherwise you spawn at a disadvantage.

Is there any good reason why it shouldn't be possible to run a Herc with a nano repair and have it be as effective as SMod SCap? Not that I can see... we've just always been using the latter setup because the components used are overpowered compared to the rest of the hardware. Nobody would ever go along with nerfing any of the standard setups; they've been in use for too long, and good luck convincing all thirty or so remaining Siegers to wipe and rebuild their config folders.

But why not try to improve everything else- the stuff that was never quite good enough to cut the mustard? Nobody has to change what they're accustomed to using, but anyone who wants some variety gets some more stuff to play around with- stuff that's already in the game, but just needed patching up. That's exactly what this ought to be... a patch to end all patches, and fix at least a majority of the issues that still plague the game. One of those issues just happens to be gameplay balance. Any serious discussion about a 1.005 patch needs to include fixing that; otherwise it's not worth bothering with. If we can continue to deal with having a bunch of useless or near-useless components and vehicles, then we can continue to deal with cluster sgun bombing and invisipreds and all that other stuff. Even if this patch does happen, it will most certainly be the last- so everything that can be fixed must be fixed, because there won't be another chance.

*edit* Unless you were just aiming that at the folks suggesting the addition of stuff that isn't in the game already... in which case, I agree completely.

[DrakeDWR]

As I have said to many people - everyone that currently plays SS is only experiencing...maybe...barely 10% of what SS CAN provide because they are so hellbent stuck on their current ways. It's beyond repetitive..which is why I even brought this idea up to begin with to the public. I am not gonna turn into Obama and scream "Change" every two seconds, but I would love to see some more variety especially in the multiplayer area..which is mainly why I'm even bothering to work on a completely new game type right this minute. Hopefully could modify the entire multiplayer layout and add a few new game types to it as well as some key "updates" to current content.

However people may not accept it..that's entirely up to them. But, this game is literally over a decade old - what are we gonna do? Sit here and play TDM every single night or every other night with the same exact configs aiming at an apocalypse's crotch or an olympian's ankle? On and on and on and on.....blah blah blah. Over 90% of this ancient game hasn't even been touched by most of the community..that's what this idea should show to the community...how much better us as a community can make it without having the source code.

[SuRgE]

Stop calling it a patch.
There is a mod, Akolades Rebalance mod, try it out , its the best one ive seen so far, and by far the most balanced.
Stop calling it a patch.
Nano repair module on a herc , it wieghs way to much, and plus, when a hercs shields are down, 2 shots and there done, theres not time for a repair module to work on a herc. When ur in tank there is, there armor is so thick, that it last long enough to get repaired, not to mention u can run away and find cover real quick in tank.

THIS THREAD IS FAIL, RENAME IT TO ANOTHER nutsTY MOD

[SuRgE]

Oh ako's Mod isnt called rebalance anymore,
ITs called EvoX Mod.
Its for Download on this site as a matter of fact
U know since were talking about Mods, and not Patches.
Anyone tried it? Why not? The guy is genius, one of the best STarsiege players, i wouldnt really trust a mod made by noobs. Most of the Input i put on this forum is stuff i learned from Akolade.

[DrakeDWR]

Surge just proved my - and others - points.

[SuRgE]

Drake, ive tried every mod out there.
I just got Pi ssed off and started venting, because i see a post called patching SS to 1.005 blah blah blah. Im like wow. So i get into it, put some valuable input about glitches and hacks, input that the head of the project doesnt even know about(his intelligence gets insulted and he says things im saying arent legit,NooBs).
Then all of a sudden, everyone starts talking about adding weps and components and goes off the deep end. Can i get a W T F?

[DrakeDWR]

Correction. The discussion was about updating errors in current weapons/components to make them more useful. The same goes for vehicles.

Tell me right now why no one uses anything other than a scap or a smod for a config other than the fact that they cannot on a tank? Simple. No one bothers to do anything else other than rush at each other in a TDM. Nano repair packs? They'd be useful in a strategic situation yes..but not in this crap you call fighting.

That's the point of this discussion - to update what is already there.

[Snow]

My intelligence does not get insulted, I merely have never heard of/experienced these glitches in my ten years, nor have been able to recreate them.

[SuRgE]

snow
lol u said the energy loss hack is not hack but a "script"
I LOL IN YOUR FACE
its funny, u use it, ur a hacker, and after ten years of hax and starsiege experience, ur still nooB

[PlagueDog]

Oooh my, another 1.005 topic. Suffice to say this has been attempted at least once and it did not work very well. There are several bugs, overlooks and exploits in the current version of Starsiege, so many that you literally need the source code to really fix up the game.

Update the Network code. (Fix the Lag) (Shot Delay)

This is latency. There will always be latency.

Do what u can to the graphics.

Darkstar cannot do better.

Dont turn this into some sh it mod, Dont add weps or vehicles.

Agreed. It was attempted once. It failed.

Fix the Turn Hack and No Hud Loss Hack.

These are client side issues and currently the rotation is determined by the client and not the server. Same goes for the hud properties. (Awww, why hate my script?)

Fix the Crashing Issues.
Fix the Peeps Crashing Servers issues.

The stability of the client and server is so bad you would need the source code to fix this.

Fix the Inviso Pred Hack.

As far as I know there is no way to restrain what you can enter in as a skin file. Or are you talking about the carlam armored predator that is hidden from sensors?

Hmm Possibly Fix mines, so they Stay on ground and dont dissapear? Fix the Fact that they Go through shields lol. Thats a glitch.

Mines are suppose to go through shields. However, mines can be modified via script to last longer than 30 seconds.

Fix the Sgun Exploit, of changing camera views for instant kill.

What?

Fix the Dredlock Collision Box issue.

Explain please.

About the additional weapons, there are several fields in the datProjectile file that can make weapons unique. It is not hard add new weapon models but new weapons really need to be tested heavily in order to be balanced.

About new vehicles, so far the "new" vehicle models I have ever seen for Starsiege do not fit in with the game at all. Best keep new vehicles out.

[Snow]

Excuse me? I don't mind you talking sh it about me but don't ever call me a hacker. I don't need the no HUD loss *SCRIPT*, because I can just aim. It's not a hack, because a true hack goes into the game itself.

Thanks, PlagueDog, for putting into words what we've been trying to explain to Surge. Also not brand new vehicle models, that's nigh impossible. More like your weapons argument, tweak them enough to be unique, or atleast see more HERCs than just Jud, Exec, Apoc wars.

[SuRgE]

Snow lol its hack, no matter how much you sugar coat it
im gonna scan your computer to see if you have it installed, cause you got mighty defensive when i first brought it up

[DrakeDWR]

Sorry Surge - you may as well call everything ever created a hack then going by your argument. Disabling mines, smart guns..it's all a hack.

Sure - even custom made maps. May as well be a hack.

I don't use it myself personally... I don't even do all that TDM crap much myself..and if I do I must be incredibly bored.

Just to put it simple - it's a script. Not a hack. You only call it a hack because it seems to be a cheating way of being able to aim still after loss of energy. However you can do that even so without HUD - well at least true vets or someone with eyes can do. So everyone may as well have it...ooh...everyone hacks...what are we ever gonna do.

[Snow]

Uhm, No. I got 'mighty defensive' at you calling me a hacker in general. That's an insult to my integrity, although it shouldn't surprise me coming from a PS.

Scan my computer? Oh noo don't find my 1.21gigabytes (total BTTF reference) of porn. Strange, though. Isn't scanning my computer for a certain file considered, well, hacking?

Again, not surprising coming from a PS.

I bid you adur.