Patch 1.005 opinions - suggestions

[Drake™]

I never said more powerful, I said weigh more.

[wrathofdeadguy]

The Mino and Basi are definitely "advanced user" vehicles- the Mino moreso than the Basi.

Sheps are much harder to destroy, and that's what makes them better than Minos... everything else is small change. The key to staying alive in a Mino is to keep your distance so that you can evade more enemy fire, only getting close to things you know you can kill. There is no situation where the Mino is better- the Shep's weapons have wider firing arcs, and anywhere it can point one it can point all four, unlike the Mino which loses use of one or two depending on positioning. The only advantage you're getting in a Mino is if you're a better pilot than your opponent. That doesn't make it bad, it just means the Shep is better. Either one makes a brilliant long-range harasser/shield-killer; the Shep is however far superior at knife-fight ranges. Most of the underpowered vehicles are rather less so as long as you keep in mind what your weaknesses are and stay out of situations where the enemy can exploit them. Again, it isn't so much that they're bad vehicles so much as the fact that the most popular vehicles just don't have major weaknesses. Only a handful are so crippled as to be pushovers.

Basilisk/Adjudicator is less clear-cut. The Adjudicator has high weapon mounts, which lets it shoot over obstacles easily... but makes it harder to target things like legs and crotches (the usual vulnerable spots) in close-range fights. The Basilisk's weapons, mounted lower on the chassis, do not have that problem, and also- unlike the Adjudicator- their firing angle does not shift when the vehicle moves (the Judge's weapons shift up or down depending on whether it is sitting still or moving). The Basi's main weapons are better protected by the vehicle's body, whereas the Judge's are up high and easier to hit from any angle. The Basilisk is chunkier and easier to hit, while the Judge is quicker to turn and skinny... but again, the Basi's chunkiness is also an advantage in that you can shield damaged locations with the rest of your body, whereas with the Judge a damaged part is exposed from almost any angle. Armor is comparable. The Judge can overtech its engine by more, resulting in a higher turn rate, but since the Basi's starts higher it doesn't make as big a difference as you'd think.

Obviously the Judge has more mass to work with, but mass is secondary to how you use it. Stop giggling. Most of the same weapon configs work, though the Basi has trouble with decent XL-weapon setups because of mass limitations. Which one you use is ultimately down to personal preference; though the Judge has an edge it is a slight one. I tend to prefer the Basi because it suits my piloting style better.

Here's a useful tip- don't treat any config as a solid block once you've finished building it. A lot of what keeps folks alive in the "underdog" vehicles is that they fiddle with their configs every time they spawn in, depending on what is being used against them. For example, if you drop into a match with DURAC armor but most of the weapons are PBWs, you might consider switching to Ceramic next spawn. If there are a lot of MFACs, Rails, BCs, then use Crystalluminum. If you want to cloak for longer and have a Delta reactor, swap out for Medium (actually, Medium is always the best reactor for cloaking, but that's another post). If you need a little extra agility, tech down your computer- or if you have Theta installed, consider swapping for Fastcharge. Instead of overteching your engine with heavy Agility, use heavy High Output- you can't improve your top speed anyway, and H Agil weighs more, and both have the same acceleration rating. Little details can make big differences.

[Vern :e:]

I think the Minotaur should have greater armor and can hold a better armor size.
Same for the Sheppard

because to me the Mino is way to weak.

[Drake™]

I wouldn't say the sheperd..sheperd is too powerful at the moment as it is.

[Vern :e:]

But the mino?

[wrathofdeadguy]

If anything, the Mino should be faster- not stronger. The Shep is 8 tons heavier; though they fill analogous roles they are not meant to be the same vehicle. The same holds true for the Talon and Seeker, the Basilisk and the Adjudicator, the Executioner and Gorgon... Weapon limitations are the reason why folks equate these with each other. Outwardly it appears that they were intended to be identical in all but mass... which simply isn't true.

Some of them manage to hold their own because of that very fact; unfortunately the Mino falls just short of the mark because its initial apparent advantage- that would be speed and agility- is usurped by the Shepherd's ability to overtech its engine. Because of that, the Shep is actually the more maneuverable of the two even though the Knight's Mino is still a tad faster... combined with more armor, a bigger shield, more free tonnage, and better firing arcs, and the Shep emerges as clearly superior.

Actually, at least with the Mino, a case can be made that it was intentionally made inferior... the Manual and Compendium pretty explicitly state that it isn't so great in a direct fight. One of the few cases of truth in advertising, you might say. Even the Recluse doesn't get that kind of treatment, and the Recluse legitimately sucks instead of just being underpowered.

[chappy]

What exactly do you mean by 'overtech' the engine?
Cause I just use the engine with the 500/500 rating instead of the 480/500.
So the 20 is overteching?

[wrathofdeadguy]

Here's how it works (in gameplay terms):

Each engine has two ratings, one for speed and one for agility. That number divided by 10 is how heavy your vehicle can be and still move at its maximum speed and agility. For example, a 75-ton Olympian mounting only the 600/600 rated Heavy Agility engine will have both its top speed and acceleration (which includes turn rate) reduced. If it mounts the Improved Assault Engine, rated for 700/800, its top speed will be reduced while its acceleration will be increased. However, mounting the 800/800 rated Heavy Turbine engine will not result in a higher top speed, just a higher rate of acceleration/turning.

So in a Shepherd, a Dreadlock, or a Basilisk, you only need the Heavy High Output engine to achieve the best possible performance because none of them exceed the 50-ton limit on that engine's speed rating.

The higher the engine's acceleration rating, the further past your vehicle's listed maximum acceleration you can operate. I am not sure if there is an upper limit on that or not, but someone with more hands-on experience with the game files might be able to. This will not be mentioned in the loadout screen; it happens strictly behind-the-scenes. Note that you can also reduce your vehicle's mass to achieve higher acceleration also, as the engine's performance is dictated by your vehicle's final drop mass and not its maximum allowable mass.

This can actually work to your advantage to further boost your acceleration on a few vehicles. Take the Predator for example- it maxes out at 60 tons, can mount a 600 rated engine, and can't overtech. However, it has gobs and gobs of internal space to play with, so much that you can (with a little shoehorning) create a config that comes in under 50 tons. You can then reduce the engine from Heavy Agility to Heavy High Output, still be able to reach your top speed, and gain the benefit of increased acceleration for reducing your engine by that additional ton. This is the only way to achieve an acceleration boost in vehicles whose maximum allowable tonnage equals their largest engine's maximum rating.

That last bit is really only helpful for Tanks, though- in a Herc you'll usually need every last bit of internal space you've got. However, when you have the extra tonnage, if you can fill it with an engine that gives you a better acceleration (i.e. with the Adjudicator, which can use 900/900 rated engines in a 60-ton chassis- a 30 ton difference, the largest of any vehicle in the game), do so... the increase from the better engine will likely do you more good than the increase from being underweight with the engine you have.

Vehicles like the Apoc, Exec, and Oly can get away with reducing engine tonnage and with it their top speed and acceleration, but really every other vehicle should always have an engine that can at least meet its listed stats, because they need all the speed and agility they can manage to make up for relative lack of either firepower or armor.

[chappy]

Ohhh, so even though in the herc bay it says the max speed/accel is 100/10. If I mount an engine with ratings higher than it's current mass, I can accelerate faster than 10 but still stuck with a top speed of 100.
Hahaha, time to modify my setups again.

[Snow]

My god, you need a mechanics license to play SS now.

[wrathofdeadguy]

Well, most of us know this stuff from way back, but it doesn't help any of the newer folks if it doesn't get passed on somehow. A lot of it was never posted in any of the guides that used to be floating around the internet because the only people who knew some things were the folks who went digging around in files and whomever they happened to tell it to while farting around in game. It doesn't seem like a lot of stuff to remember until it all gets spelled out, I guess.

[Snow]

I never bothered to learn all that. I just slapped the lightest engine I could that still had max speed and accel, and then the usual loadout (Scap smod smallest sensors best reactor I could et cetera)

[wrathofdeadguy]

B-b-but... playing with 'figs is half the fun!

[Angel-A (Sunny D)]

Sooooo... What's happening with the mod?

[Snow]

Read my facebook page.